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Thanks to the PR staff's detailed first-half notes, I can answer a question regarding Craig Tatum that's cropped up more frequently on this blog since the Orioles ran off four consecutive wins in Arlington.
What is the club's record with its backup catcher behind the plate?
The Orioles are 10-9 in games that Tatum has started, compared to 19-50 with Matt Wieters in the lineup.
Read as much or as little into it as you want. I'm just tossing out the numbers.
Tatum needed a crash course in spring training to learn the pitching staff, and he still had to study a lot of video, along with attending the usual meetings with the starters and pitching coach Rick Kranitz, once the season began. Chad Moeller had the advantage in familiarity and experience, plus the overwhelming support of the clubhouse. Tatum had the stronger arm and was exceptional at blocking balls in the dirt.
If you're looking for records at each position that are above .500, it's a pretty quick search. You won't need to pack a lunch or bring a flashlight.
First base: Rhyne Hughes (7-4), Jake Fox (2-1), Scott Moore (1-0).
Third base: Scott Moore (1-0).
Designated hitter: Hughes (1-0), Corey Patterson (2-1) Miguel Tejada (2-1).
If you want to crunch more numbers with your morning coffee, the Orioles have been outscored 70-32 in the first inning, 49-37 in the second, 62-31 in the third, 51-27 in the fourth, 48-35 in the seventh, 59-42 in the eighth and 44-35 in the ninth.
They've outscored opponents, 37-36 in the fifth and 9-8 in extra innings, and totaled the same amount of runs (39) in the sixth.
I promised that there wouldn't be any math, so we'll do state capitals in the next entry.
I have said all along that Wieters calls bad games.
It may very well be that Tatum calls a better game. Do the pitchers feel more comfortable throwing to him? That would be hard to comprehend because Wieters caught Bergesen, Matusz, Tillman, and Arrieta last year in the minors. Tatum's bat has been better than advertised, though I don't necessarily expect that to continue, especially with more playing time. He's very good at blocking balls in the dirt. His arm, at least as far as throwing out would be base stealers, has left much to be desired. He has thrown out 11%(2-18), while Wieters is at 30%. Eleven percent is Varitek and Victor Martinez territory. Good, well-managed teams will run you blind when they see those numbers.
Overall, I would say he's been a pleasant surprise. However, the posters who suggested a couple of days ago that Wieters should be moved to 1b or benched in favor of Tatum must be sprinkling something special on their cornflakes in the morning.
Roch,
With Tillman's strong start prior to the All Star break, wouldn't it make sense for Tatum to catch Tillman's next start to allow Tillman to continue to improve?
Furthermore, I was looking at Tatum's stats (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=tatumcr01&t=b&year=2010) and it seems that Matusz as well pitches better when Tatum is behind the plate as opposed to Wieters.
Is it time to suck it up and put Tatum behind the plate when Matusz and Tillman start.
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They're back-to-back in the rotation. Samuel won't sit a healthy Wieters, or DH him, in consecutive games. - Roch
I don't want to be crass here, and I certainly don't want to disrespect someone who has just died, but after watching ESPN the last couple of days, I can only come up with one question: When do the canonization procedures start for George Steinbrenner? Sheesh.
Yeah, it's all Wieters' fault. If only Chad Moeller were our starter we would make the playoffs.
Catchers make suggestions to pitchers; pitchers have to accept the suggestion and execute the pitch.
With that said, a good catchers can help a struggling pitcher get through a tough inning while minimizing the runs scored. My guess is that a catcher that handles the staff well and calls a good game probably wins you 5-8 games and lowers the staff era by 0.2 over the year.
Man, I thought the season started back up on the Thurs after the all star game. Cant believe this dead zone, no game today either? But Roch my man - you still find something to keep us all interested! These numbers are great to stew over with my coffee. You da man, and thanks again for all you do. It is VERY MUCH appreciated!
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Thanks. And I agree about today's off-day. I didn't realize until a few days ago that the second half started on Friday. It was always a three-day break. - Roch
Didn't the O's have four days off over the break once before, somewhat recently? Regardless, it stinks. Going thru withdrawal.
TomC13 - I agree.
Wieters has done a fine job behind the plate, he's not the problem. The W-L record between Wiets & Tatum are coincidental. O's fans can be ridiculous....lets listen to the goofball fans we have & demote Adam Jones & Wieters. Funny. Tatum has done a nice job & should be our backup for years to come. Having a tenured backup catcher with the same team / group of pitchers can be very beneficial.
Good call, I have sympathy for any human being who passes, however lets face facts. Steinbrenner was a bully, someone who illegally funded political parties, someone who was banned or suspended from baseball for shady dealing on 3 different occasions & a blow hard. Simply put the guy was an ass. He is also may have single handedly ruined the game with egregious over spending. Sure,,,I feel for him & his family for their loss...but truth be told...Steinbrenner is & was an ass.....there I said it
Agreed. How many games did the Orioles hitters fail to produce more than 1 run when Wieters was behind the plate? W/L between the 2 catchers is a fluke. I also agree with another reader above in that the catcher gives a suggestion and it's up to the picther to execute that pitch or shake him off and throw a different pitch that he is more comfortable throwing in that situation. Wieters can't help it if he calls a low and away fastball and the pitch is thrown belt high down the middle and ends up in the left field seats.
They're also 8-8 on Sundays this year. That shows me that the talent level is pretty consistent through the depth chart, such as it is.
No need for withdrawals; as a reminder to everyone, the first week after the All-Star Break all Comcast (and I think Verizon) subscribers get a free trial of the Extra Innings package. You can watch several games for free all week.
That doesn't help with the Oriole withdrawal much... but isn't that what our good friend Roch is for?
I'm not sure if i read this correctly or not, but it sounds like AM and Trembley made the right decision keeping Tatum over Moeller. Maybe my reading comprehension is rusty because based on many of these posts, you would think they never do anything right.
Anthony Rendon was carted off the field with a serious ankle injury. Now 2011 is already off to a bad start.
The biggest problem I see is that Matt Wieters has yet to figure out that he doesnt have a power pitching staff. Matusz and Tillman are more finesse guys. Bergesen is a sinker ball pitcher, even Millwood is more of a finesse guy. Only Arrieta and Guthrie have the power pitching make up. Than when you look at the bullpen Hendrickson, Koji and Ohman are all of the finesse variety and Berken, Hernandez and Simon are of the power pitching variety. Its really not hard to see that the pitchers that have had the most problems with Wieters catching are finesse guys.
I understand calling for number 1. I really do. Its the easiest pitch to control for a pitcher, it helps control the run game with runners on but its also the easiest pitch to jack especially when the fastball is only topping out at 92 which is the case with Bergesen, Matusz and Tillman.
The disturbing thing for me is that Wieters has caught a majority of these guys in the minor leagues, so he should have the better rapor with them especially over a guy who is new to the club in Tatum. Wieters IMO was just given too much responsibility this year, way too much. They realy should consider letting him DH 3 games a week but we know that wont happen.
If the problem is how Wieters calls the game, then that falls squarely on our coaching staff. I also think Wieters was played far too much by Trembley. Hopefully this extended break will do him some good. His improvement over the rest of the season is crucial.
I think the whole reason Weiters is struggling at the plate is because he's working on his recieving more. Isn;t that the whole reason why Datz was hired, to mentor Matt. We won 4 games because the pitchers made better pitches, not because of who was calling the pitches. Far too often this year a catcher (weiters) would call for a pitch away and the pitchers would miss by a foot. Amazing to think that because of a small 4 game winning streak we are really talking about moving wieters. We must be desperate.
First Sherill.... anyone who thinks he isn't a HUGE upgrade over Hendrickson, issues back whatever, is on crack.
They are literally scratching for a reliever half the time & even a less than 100% Sherill is better than the options at AAA. He could become even more useful if the salary dum...errr ,ummmm I mean trades begin soon & they involve Hendrickson & a few others in the pen. Frankly, I can't imagine anyone wants Hendrickson.
It's all a dead end anyway, no way the O's would pick up his remaining salary & remember, it's not all of it but just a prorated portion for the balance of this year.
I don't buy into the idea that Wieters calls bad games & the main reason is this.... some here seem to forget the guy pitched in college, he was the team closer , so he has been on the other side of this. Anyone thinking Tatum is the answer is on the same crack as mentioned before. Give him the same sample size as Wieters & I doubt his "record" would look much different.
Cereal Blogger & Chris, Perhaps a comparison of team ERA in games the caught would be more fair than the W/L, but still not a true measurement since Tatum hasn't caught very many games among other factors.
I've always thought that catcher stats like staff ERA and W-L record are misleading. There are so many other factors that go into it. Which pitchers have those catchers caught? Has Tatum caught more games when the other team is also playing a lot of its reserves? What about home vs. road? It's easy to look at the numbers and think the O's would be better off giving Tatum a heavier workload behind the plate (and I do think Wieters should get a real day off each week, plus DH once a week), but catcher stats like these suffer from being a small sample size, among other problems.
Up to this point Weiters is a HUGE bust. Tatum has a higher batting average also. Wasn't Weiters being compared to Joe Mauer?
W-L records are a terrible stat to use when judging pitchers...and in this case catchers.....How many runs does the offense average when Tatum starts? How many do they average when Weiters starts? What is the pitchers ERA when Tatum starts compared to Weiters?
Com'on Roch, you started this with this morning math. Now you need to fix it and get us the correct info or else :)
It should be noted that roughly one third of Tatum's innings caught have been with Jason Berken (1.95 ERA) and David Hernandez (2 something ERA as a reliever). Both pitchers have been excellent in their roles regardless of who caught their game; that will help lower anyone's ERA. Meanwhile, Wieters has the had the dubious pleasure of logging far more innings than Tatum with Mata, Meredith, Castillo, Albers, and Mark Hendrickson.
Where is Greg Zaun when you need him? Wieters has no one to turn to and ask "Hey what do I do in this situation." The Orioles need a veteran back-up catcher to mentor Wieters, and those young pitchers. It goes to show how out of touch this organization really is. You don't have to look to far to see what a veteran catcher does for a team (Ivan Rodriguez).
I don't think it's a coincidence as Wieters might have been overworked and is still getting adjusted. There's a bigger learning curve for catchers after all. Tatum as the back-up probably focuses more on defense than offense. No I don't think Tatum should overtake Wieters and no I wouldn't move Wieters to first, but I think giving Tatum more reps as Samwell suggested a while ago.
Any status on Wieters condition as they were going to re-evaluate it during the break?
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Won't know until I get to the ballpark tomorrow. That's when the club will check on him. - Roch
An old trivia question....what two days each year is there never a major league game played in any of the four major sports in the US?
Non sports fan usually respond, Christmas, Thanksgiving, or such......I am sure every student of Roch thinks the answer is too obvious to even ask.
Power-wise Mauer isn't having a good year at all- 4 HRs and none so far at Target. Catchers tend to get more leeway for this reason. Even during his MVP season last season, I don't think he would have gotten it had he played another position.
Pudge is performing above expectations especially defensively. He has not been as effective this year power wise(1 HR) and clutch hitting (too many GIDPs and LOBs). There's also a young gun on that team to the south that they wanted him to mentor. You may have heard of him, some guy named Strasburg.
Well I think it's obvious that C-Pat should be our DH then.
Those are some pretty funny numbers. My favorite is the one about Hughes.I thought he was a pretty good player, and he has a dreamy smile.
Roch, who approves the O's Xtra Question of the Day? Listing "Pie's Breakout Year" as one of the three biggest questions of the second half is beyond absurd. He's played in 12 games. He's had 36 at bats. He lives on the DL. How is he breaking out?
That question illustrates how pathetic our team is and how few storylines MASN can manufacture for the second half. I imagine they didnt want to list the trade deadline as our biggest question because that's a bit depressing, but Gonzo and Pie dont exactly unsettle my bones. I'm more interested in seeing what Amber wears every night.
Enough already, bring the legend aboard,,,,,NOW ! You want Ripken around your team, players, front office people
Ripken, Orioles discussing return - Associated Press
BALTIMORE -- Cal Ripken Jr. is exploring the possibility of joining the Baltimore Orioles as a part-time adviser, which would ease his transition into a permanent position after his son graduates high school in 2012.
Ripken, who turns 50 next month, has been meeting on a regular basis with Orioles owner Peter Angelos and president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail. The conversations have centered on finding the Hall of Fame infielder a position in the front office on the team he played for throughout his 21-year career.
Should they come up with a plan that would allow Ripken to remain dedicated to his family while serving the Orioles, he would be willing to get back in the game before his son, Ryan, graduates from Gilman School.
"If something does take shape, then I'll start to consider it. And I'll be honest enough to say this is the amount of time I have and these are the commitments that I have elsewhere," Ripken said in an interview with The Associated Press.
"The cool part is, we're thinking about all sorts of things. Is there an opportunity to advise with your free time? How would that work? And then what would that lead into? Where are we going with this? We're examining the possibilities in a real way. I'm satisfied with that," he said.
Ripken became known as the "Iron Man" for playing in a record 2,632 consecutive games. He was a full-time player in every sense of the word before retiring in 2001, and there's little doubt he would bring that same kind of dedication to the Orioles in the front office -- when the time is right.
The sooner the better for the Orioles, who haven't had a winning season since 1997 and currently sit in last place in the AL East with the worst record in the major leagues (29-59).
MacPhail is looking for a new manager, but it won't be Ripken, who has no desire to abandon his family before both his children are in college.
"It has some appeal to me, although in the short term it has no appeal to me because of the time commitment," Ripken said. "But in the bigger picture, sure, I'd consider that."
Ripken acknowledged that it would be foolish to be offered the job without experience, even though his father was a longtime manager and coach.
"All managers have to start at some point, maybe as a bench coach. There are many different ways to do it," Ripken said. "You learn and get experience as you go. It starts with your baseball confidence -- how you see the game and your experience in that regard. Not all players can think like a manager. Some can. I think it boils down to who you are as a baseball guy."
Ripken's conversations with Angelos and MacPhail, however, have focused on a job in the front office.
"They're exploratory talks, they're healthy talks, they're honest, open exchanges with no clear timetable on when that might take place," Ripken said. "I know what I value, and I know what I can commit to and what I can't commit to, and we discuss those things and try to find potential solutions. But there's no pressure here to make a deal and jump in."
Ripken relishes the idea of working with MacPhail, who immediately made an impression with his savvy and knowledge of the game.
"I really like him. I think he's a smart baseball guy. I like how he thinks. I like how he listens," Ripken said. "The whole reason I started to think about this was because of Andy. The whole idea was twofold: Things were getting close with Ryan, and I really like spending time with Andy."
Ripken's current focus is on his family and his health. After a recent visit to the doctor revealed a high cholesterol count, he decided to team with Cheerios to inspire people to take care of their hearts with the "Do What You Love" contest.
"As a baseball player, you're exercising all the time and running around, so the last thing you worry about is how you eat. You're burning off calories and your blood work came back perfect every time," Ripken said. "As you get older, you have to be a little more careful. So I've gotten into the habit of watching my diet."
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Jeff Zrebiec and I interviewed Ripken, via conference call, during the last homestand and I wrote up a fairly long entry with his comments about meeting with Angelos and MacPhail, his interest in joining the front office as Ryan nears graduation, his willingness to take on a secondary-type role at the beginning, etc. Not sure why it's a big deal this morning when similar comments are running elsewhere. - Roch
I agree to an extent regarding a vet catcher. Datz I beleive was a former catcher & many wrote that he was hear to help Wieters. You couldnt bring Pudge in here b/ c he still wants to play on a daily basis. Pudge could be a problem if he played as much as Tatum. Still, love Pudge...he really does bring an energy to a team.
Tatum has done pretty well lately...I like the way he looks on D and at the plate and calling games....he needs to play a bit more and rest Weiters....but Weiters will be OK too.....they make a great young tandem.....now the whole team needs to play better the 2nd half...
A player gets hurt (Wieters). The backup come in (Tatum) and plays better.
That happens. See also Flacco and Tom Brady
Wieters might make a good first baseman.
I'm not sure which was funnier, your user name or the content!
See, here's what they oughta do with Cal. First, bring him in as an "advisor" or some other part-time job where he can observe the operation of the club. Then, pair him up with someone who has prior GM experience and make them "co-GMs" while Cal continues to get his feet wet...
(Hey, if it doesn't work out, they can always put Cal in the announcing booth!)
Cautiously Optimistic | July 15, 2010 9:22 AM | Reply
I'm not sure if i read this correctly or not, but it sounds like AM and Trembley made the right decision keeping Tatum over Moeller. Maybe my reading comprehension is rusty because based on many of these posts, you would think they never do anything right.
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Yep, like giving up a closer(Sherrill) to get a young bat.
The O's kind of got screwed at the beginning of both halves this year. Normally we open on a Monday and get Tuesday off. Normally we open the second half on a Thursday. So technically the league looks at April 5th and today as an "off day" for the Orioles, but in reality we all know that both days do little good for the team other than making them wait. In the beginning the O's got to play for 16 straight days after that "off day," and this time around they get a similar fate.
Lansing is the capital of Michigan not Detroit.
Wieters needs more time off from catching so he can work on his hitting. I think he also needs to work on calling a better game. I think that is the biggest hole in his game.
Also going back a few posts... Sherrill vs. Gonzalez is a no brainer. Mata or Sherrill is a no brainer. Uehara or Sherrill is a no brainer.
Sherrill needs to get rid of that stupid goatee (proof the facial hair rule is necessary) put on the flat breezy and come on back home. I miss the Brim Reaper.
The Steve,
As a former college catcher, the issue you bring up regarding a vet, is really pointless in terms of situations Weiters or Tatum might face. Both have been at the position for years, probably in High School, through college, in the minors, and now at the major league level. At this point if they need to ask Moeller what they need to do in certain situations, then they shouldn't be playing the position. The edge with a wily vet comes in handy when an inning or game unravels quickly, and someone needs to restore confidence and settle down a young pitcher. The only thing thight might come into play is vets are more likely to know where certain batters position themselves in the batters box.
I had no problem with the team choosing Tatum over Moeller. Both at this point are back ups, and Tatum offers younger player with some upside. A claim which Moller can't make.
Cereal Blogger,
You are to be congratulated on what seems to be a sincere effort to break your ugly habit of replacing periods with commas when you use an ellipsis. You still have a long journey to get to the oasis where you will correctly and reflexively use periods in each ellipsis in a post with the proper spacing.
Remember: A space between the last letter and first of three periods, and a space between the last period(#3) and first letter.
From 1:13 PM post w/modestly suggested changes.
(I)Still(,) love (platonically ... of course ... in the way that teammates love one another) Pudge ... he really does bring an energy to a team.
This sentence could have been written: I still love Pudge ... he really does bring (an) energy to a team.
I believe if you look at the game losses early on they have nothing to do with catching. Many were blown saves, bullpen blowing holds and lack of offense. I believe the Weiters / Tatum connection is irrelevant unless you look at the number of runs scored in those games.
Roch- Just looking at the W-L records of each catcher, to determine who should
get more starts behind the plate,in my opinion, is absurd. If Weiters is
catching David Hernandez ( before the O's realized that he could dominate for
3-4 innings as a starter, but not be able to go more then 5 innings, with no
wins ) or Brad Bergesen ( when he could not get his sinker down, and should
have been at Norfolk ) or Chris Tillman ( when he could not break 90 with his
fastball, that had no movement ), the problem was not with Matt. The problem
was with the O's management ( Trembley, AM, and Kranitz )for not calling up
Arrieta earlier, not moving Hernandez to the bullpen earlier, having a closer
who could not close out games, putting a lineup on the field, that had no
legitimate power hitter at the corners, and had 3-4 players every night,
playing out of position. Matt is going to get better at calling the game
( although I don't think he calls a terrible game now ), and as he gets to
work more with Arrieta, Matusz, hopefully Zach Britton, and an improved
Tillman & Bergesen, his win % will get far better. He already is doing
something that we have not been able to do for years, slow down the running
game. As Ray pointed out, Weiters has thrown out about 30% of base stealers,
( 14 out of 47 ) while Tatum has only thrown out about 11% ( 2 out of 18 ).
For Matt, this represents a decent improvement over 2009, when he threw out
24+ % of base stealers ( 21 out of 86 ).Weiters also has a better fielding %
than Tatum ( .993 to .984 ). I do think that Tatum calls a little better game,
but we should realize that he is 27 years old, and that Matt has only caught
about 1 full season in the majors. The expectation level of fans in general,
and the O's in particular, for our young players to produce now ( with so few
quality veterans to help them ) is probably unreasonable, but understandable,
after 13 losing seasons. I really believe that Weiters, Markakis, Reimold,
Jones, Angle, Pie, Arrieta, Britton, Matusz, Tillman, Hernandez, Berken, etc.
will figure it out sooner then later, and lead us to much better times. Roch,
thanks for providing such thought provoking blogs, during this slow period for
O's fans.
i've posted several times on other sites that i feel the best thing right now is to move Weiters to 1st. With Caleb joseph coming up and no real top 1st base prospects in the system, it could solve that problem. Plus there are a number of catchers available via trade. the Twins are looking for starting pitching. I think an offer of Guthrie, Scott and a prospect might be able to get the O's Wilson Ramos from the Twins. May also be able to make a trade with the evil empire for Jesus Montero. Anyway I read somewhere that Weiters never had to call games in college and is still learning this aspect of the game. Perhaps he needs more time in the minors to work on this.
What is our record in games that Luke Scott hits a homerun in? Or Adam Jones? Or even Nick Markakis? I'd like to know that! I know we're at least 1-0 in games Jake Fox has hit a HR in.
Thanks for the good work, Roch. I love looking at trends and breaking down numbers and trying to figure things out. Hopefully we're in for a competitive, good 2nd half.
Many of our games in the first half were very close. Very rarely were we embarassed or blown away. How many times did we lose by double digits? I think we're very close to being able to put it together. But a guy like Showalter is the type of guy who knows how to put it all together. It's a very critical time.
I long for the blog entry titled: The Buck Stops Here