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As we continue our series on the O's minors, how about scouting and the number of scouting positions a club uses?
Fans have pointed out that, according to the Baseball America directory, the Orioles rank last in the AL East in the number of scouting positions.
Here is what Baseball America reported:
Baltimore:
Director, International Scouting - 1
Director, Professional Scouting - 1
Major League Advance Scout - 1
Major League Scouts - 2
Pro Scouts - 7
Director, Amateur Scouting - 1
Scouting Administrator - 1
National Crosscheckers - 1
Regional Crosscheckers - 4
Full Time Scouts - 14
DR Summer League, Camp Coordinator - 1
Int'l Scouts - 2
Total Departmental Positions - 36
Boston:
Scouting Director - 1
Assistant, Director - 1
Advance Scouting Coordinator - 1
Assistant, Amateur Scouting - 1
Assistant, International Scouting - 1
Advance Scouts - 2
SPecial Assignment Scout - 1
Special Assignment Pitching Evaluator - 1
Major League Scouts - 3
Pro Scouts - 6
Consultants - 2
National Crosscheckers - 1
Regional Crosscheckers - 3
Area Scouts - 18
Coordinator, Latin AMerican Scoutin/Int'l Crosschecker - 1
Coordinator, Pac. Rim Scouting - 1
Cooridnator, Euro. Scouting - 1
Venezuela Scouting Supervisor - 1
DR Scouting Supervisor - 1
Int'l Scouts - 13
Total Departmental Positions - 60
NY:
VP, Amateur Scouting - 1
Assistant Director, Amateur Scouting - 1
Senior DIrector, Pro Personnel - 1
Assistant, Professional Scouting - 1
Pro Scouts - 15
Amateur Scouting, National Crosscheckers - 3
Area Scouts - 18
Director, International Scouting - 1
Assistant Director, International Operations - 1
Coordinator, International Player D'ment - 1
International Scouting Supervisors - 2
Scouting Development Coaches - 2
DR Scouts - 4
Venezuelan Scouts - 4
International Scouts - 8
Total Departmental Positions - 63
TB:
Director, Scouting - 1
Administrator, Scouting - 1
Assistant, Scouting/MiL Operations - 1
Director, Pro Scouting - 1
Cooridnator, Advance Scouting - 1
Special Assignment Scouts - 3
Major League Scouts - 1
Pro Scouts - 6
National Crosscheckers - 2
East Coast Crosschecker - 1
Midwest Crosschecker - 1
West Coast Crosschecker -1
Area Scouts - 15
Part-time Area Scouts - 7
International Scout - 1
Director, International Operations - 1
Director, DR Operations - 1
Director, Venezuelan Operations - 1
Pac. Rim Coordinator - 1
Special Assistant, Baseball Operations - 1
Assistant, International Operations - 1
Consultant, International Operations - 1
Total Departmental Positions - 50
Toronto:
Director, Amateur Scouting - 1
Director, Pro Scouting - 1
Coordinator, Amateur Scouting - 1
Coordinator, Pro Scouting - 1
Video Coordinators - 3
Major League Scouts - 3
Professional Crosscheckers - 2
Pro Scouts - 15
National Crosscheckers - 3
Regional Crosscheckers - 5
Area Scouts - 24
Canada Scouts - 3
Ambassador, Canadian Amateur Baseball - 1
Director, Latin American Operations - 1
International Scouts (DR, Venezuela, Australia, Columbia) - 8
Total Departmental Positions - 72
Here is what Andy MacPhail said when I questioned him about that listing.
Melewski: Is that list accurate?
MacPhail: "I would say two things: you really can't understand what the two- to-one ratio (Toronto vs. Baltimore) that one might believe, until you understand what the jobs are. What's part-time, what's ceremonial, what's what.
"The fact that the numbers are so big, is an indicator to me that, you know one of the issues since Tampa Bay snuck up on these clubs, I think Boston, New York and now Toronto have made the determination that that's not going to happen again.
"Go back and look at Toronto's numbers like a year or two ago. I think they added like 20 people.
"I think you reach the law of diminishing returns when it comes to some of this personnel. Until they come out and find some kid in Nebraska that didn't have a high school team and they found (him) in a cornfield somewhere, I do think that there are very few surprises in that amateur world. Most of this stuff is a fairly known commodity.
"It really gets down to sometimes the ability of the scout, and it's not always about numbers. But those numbers are something that I am aware of and paying attention to. Obviously those areas where you think it would be helpful to add, you are interested in adding.
"But, some of it is you definitely do reach the law of diminishing returns. And, if the opinions aren't quality, then you can start to muck up the works a little.
"Let's say you are trying to sort through the top three players in the country. You get so many opinions in there and you can get a variation of opinions there, and you end up being more confused, than if you have four guys you trust and rely on. It can be that you have a better result that way than if you sent nine guys out there, some of which don't have the experience yet or the aptitude to differentiate whether it's Machado or Taillon or Bryce Harper."
Melewski: Can teams make those numbers read different things? Are they maybe inflated in some cases?
MacPhail: "I think part of that is a byproduct of Tampa doing well in that area, making a difference in other clubs ratcheting up. I know in some cases, some of those names are not really guys that - I don't know how to delicately say it - are impactful."
Melewski: So you don't feel like you are outmanned there?
MacPhail: "I think there are areas we'd like to continue to grow and improve. I certainly don't think it's a two-to-one variation that that would lead you to believe, when you really get down and look at it.
"Like I ,you do reach the law of diminishing returns, but I don't think we're there yet. I wouldn't sit here and tell you we are completely happy with where we are. We are always looking to find ways to improve in that area.
"With Toronto, it would be interesting to see where they were a year or two ago and where they are now. And, how impactful them adding that many scouts really will be at the end of the day.
"Did they come up with somebody that no one else knew about? Are they trying to cover more leagues? I'm not sure, for example, scouting the Northwest League makes that much sense. Maybe it does, but most of those kids in that league aren't going to be traded because it's their first year."
Melewski: Do teams hire away scouts from other teams?
MacPhail: "We had some of that last year. We lost Deron Rombach to the Braves, Wayne Krivsky went to the Mets, Hollins to the Phillies.
"They all have to get some promotion of some ilk to do that. I think we lost four or five. Jim Howard, Toronto came after, but he stayed. To me that was an indication of them looking at us, thinking, there are some good people over there."
Melewski: Have the O's hired scouts away from other clubs?
MacPhail: "We've done it to other clubs. We hired Matt Ruebel to be our national crosschecker. What's good for the goose, is good for the gander. We've done it. They've done it to us, we've done it to them."
Ok I'm a little confused. So is Andy saying we are adequate in the area of scounting? It seems like he is going back and forth. The law of diminishing returns should only apply when our national and international scounting departments have well run programs. To me, our national scounting may be on par, but our international scounting can't be too far along. So to say there is the law of diminished returns in a field that we aren't properly integrated in seems far fetched to me. Maybe it's because I'm just not aware of what we are doing internationally, but to not know may be another way of assessing that that area needs more scouts, facilities, generally more of everything. I just don't seem to follow Andy on this one too well.
Maybe they should try to get some of the Texas Rangers Hitting Scouts as the Orioles cannot seem to find a hitter in the draft to save themselves!
I disagree, the more input the better. If he doesnt trust a scout that he may hire, then dont hire that scout. These other orgs are succesfull & apparently are getting more input than we are. Ceremonial positions,,law of diminishing returns, questioning Toronto's effectiveness ??,,these sound like excuses to me. Adding to our scouting department should be a priority if we are to build from within. I wonder if MacP has the authority to hire the adequate # of scouts we need, that auth comes from the top. If MacP wants to hire more, then whats the delay? You would think this would have been one of his first acts if he wanted to take the org in this direction.
Steve, tell MacP Im available on the cheap
So.... no, they don't.
You're telling me that the baseball world isn't big enough for more than 36 people??? Without stepping on one another's toes?
Please.
What MacPhail doesn't mention is how successful Tampa's prospects have been compared to his own. Ditto for Boston and New York. Say what you will about the Orioles' homegrown talent, but we don't have a single player that's performed on the level of Evan Longoria, David Price, Clay Buchholz, Jon Lester, Robinson Cano, Phil Hughes... even Brett Gardner.
Markakis and Jones have had their moments, and hopefully our pitching "cavalry" will have theirs as well, but none of them have had seasons worthy of what we see from the top young players on Tampa, New York or Boston. I think scouting does have something to do with it.
Very good and interesting report. I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in between. I seriously doubt Toronto and Tampa Bay are lighting money on fire in this economy. He made some very good points but businesses don't have staffs twice as big as necessary if they don't feel it is beneficial.
As him why we drafted a disproportionate number of guys from the same high school?
Steve,
Those are the worse answers I've seen McPhail give to anything.
Did he really say what he just said when the difference in scouting is so apparent? You can argue having one good scout in nebraska is better than 4 bad ones (which I doubt the Red Sox hired), but you certainly can't argue that no scouts in certain countries are better than some scouts there.
This is really sad.
I've grown up with the O's, its going to be really sad in the next couple of days when they are torn apart.
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I don't know how they will be torn apart. I have written many, many times now that the O's come up well short on the international front. In number of scouts, resources and dollars committed. I don't see them coming up short on the domestic side, I think Joe Jordan is pretty pleased with his staff.
I do agree with one thing he said. There are cases where you want only maybe your four key scouts to see a guy like Machado. You need your best eyes on him, not the most eyes on him. Having said that, they do seem to come up short vs. the rest of this division in number of scouts. The proof will eventually be in players they produce over a few years and not the mess that this year has turned into. - Steve.
First, thanks for addressing this. It is something that I have wanted to understand for a while. I have to admit, the answers here from AM are not what I was hoping to here.
When Toronto changed GM's they went from an emphasis on statistics to an emphasis on scouting. At that point, Tampa Bay set the way forward for everyone in the division except for NY. They completely changed the structure in the US and added significant resources internationally. They added a ton of resources across the board and changed the way the layers/cross-checkers work to add more supervision and eyes here in the US.
We don't really seem to acknowledge that we need to have more emphasis/layers in the US and we are still nowhere relative to Boston/Toronto/others internationally. I really hoped for more momentum to change the way we scout and with more intensity across the board.
Very interested to see what Tony Pente on the Hangout comes up with on his piece soon.
Jim.
Steve,
Great interview. I don't have a positive opinion of MacPhail's take on the matter, but you definitely asked the questions we wanted answered. And you put those scout stats up for those who hadn't seen them before.
I think it's kind of difficult to argue with our results compared to the the competition. It's not like the Yankees and Sox are getting top ten picks every year but their talent does seem to develop quicker than ours.
Maybe that's a player development issue and not a scout/drafting. The Rays had the benefit of sucking bad enough to get all those #1 picks, but they've definitely developed some top tier talent and they did identify that great Garza trade and picked Pena off the scrap heap.
I don't lend much weigh to the diminishing returns pitch or ceremonial scouts.
Toronto has run laps around us on international signings in the last year alone. Their GM is just a very exciting up and comer. But I do have hopes that we've turned the corner in the international department now.
But even with our flurry last week, Toronto trumped us multiple times. I think they signed 2 or 3 7-figure international players and almost landed Chapman. That's pretty impressive for a GM barely a year on the job.
But it seems there wasn't a "Sano" available on the international markets this year, so us actually signing multiple six figure bonus international prospects is pretty exciting. Hopefully MacPhail keeps ramping up the scouting both here and abroad.
And adds more scouts. He can pass on the ceremonial ones though of course.
I can get that people don't like Andy's answers - but let's get real and hold him responsible for the people scouted and signed since he took over -- one person actually mentioned Markakis!
Dylan also gave examples from other teams -- NONE of which were scouted since Andy took over the Orioles. Where are the examples to show where these otehr departments have done so much better since Andy took over? Not to say that there aren't any, just that no one posted any.
You can't even count Wieters since the scouting for him was done before Andy took the helm, but Matsuz, Avery, Hobgood go to him -- players he has scouted for in trades (at least the building block players) Tillman, Jones, Mikolio, Bell, etc.
So, complain about players if you want to, but use ones scouted since 2007.
I think we have a major development problem somewhere - and the guy that headed that up was moved this year, but I don't see the huge scouting problem - disparity yeah, huge problem no. Everyone writes about overhyping of players, but over the past three years it has been the national people doing the hyping - not the hyping of the Olsens, Penns, Hoeys, etc. that we got before.
I agree that there is only so much need for scouting on the domestic level. I don't think that anyone ever implied that that was problem within the Orioles organization. As we've all known for a long time it is the international side where the O's have been falling further and further behind their rivals.
The problem with MacPhail, and why he always seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth, is that he does everything (I mean EVERYTHING) at a snail's pace. I appreciate his honesty in admitting that there are several areas in which he would like to improve, but if you recognize that, then do it. What are you waiting for? We live in an age of immense resources now with the technology available to us. I've never built a scouting system in Puerto Rico or Venezuela, but I guarentee I could find, recruit and hire someone who does. And it wouldn't take that long. I'll admit that we as a society (especially those 35 and under) expect instant gratification in all areas of life, but I think asking MacPhail to put a little pep in his step is completely resonable. It's not 1987 anymore Andy.
As a sidenote, I hope no one starts mentioning that it's Angelos's fault and that he won't invest the money to make this happen. Despite popular belief I think Angelos is a reasonable man who truly wants to improve the state of the Orioles. MacPhail has Angelos ear (and his respect) more so than any other GM has during Pete's tenure as owner. It is MacPhail's job to convince Angelos of these things and to make them happen. The time for talk is over, we needed action yesterday.
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I think you said it well. - Steve.
The answer that stuck out to me like a sore thumb was his response for not scouting the Northwest League. OK, so those guys can't be traded until they've been with an organization for a year. But when it comes time that they can be traded, and they've moved on to a higher level, wouldn't it be nice to have a scouting report on them beginning when they first came into baseball? All it could mean is that you have a sense of how much he's already progressed, and everything that comes with it. You'd have a better sense of his injury history, the amount of time he took to adjust to his new level, the types of slumps or hot streaks he went into, the pitchers or hitters he struggled against, etc.
To think just before a trade is the only time you'd want to scout someone seems insane to me. I want the club to have full reports on all of these guys. If this is a representative example of the logic of our scouting other organizations, then I'm quite discouraged.
Steve-
This all seems to political to me. There is no way, that the other teams pay 30 or 40 "unimpactful" scouts, just to make Baltimore look bad. THats insane.
Did you see the Cal Ripken article on Yahoo today? With the Lebron James thing?
Does anyone else see this as another major organizational issue to add to the long list? We need to be doing a GREAT job drafting players not just a good job.
There are scouting services that cover the guys that they don't get to see everyday. Some teams and maybe the O's rely on them to much. I know in football the Bengals have the smallest scouting department and really rely on scouting services. Look what that gets them year in and year out.
Steve-
You didn't offer your opinion on this topic. What say you?
Well the question I have for everyone here is, What has the Yankees produced in the last 10 years other than Cano, Jaba, and Hughes, maybe Jackson with Detroit now. I would say that Tillman, Matusz, Arrietta are like Hughes and Jaba when they first come up. Hughes couldn't get anyone out. Wieters, Roberts, Markakis for position players are as good as any Yankee or Red Sox that has come up in the last 10 years. Tampa and Toronto I will say has been better that Baltimore in producing prospects, but that was with lousy GM's and poor scouting before MacPhail got here. Also remember, till a couple of years ago, Tampa always finished below us. I would have to say the Yankees or the Red Sox have not been all that good in the prospect department the last 10 years, maybe because they have finished at the top of MLB in those years.
Steve, one thing I would wonder about this interview, he really doesn't talk about the international scouting, mostly domestic. Did he ignore that part of the question you asked him??
Continuity and depth. The Orioles have some young players who were brought up to Baltimore out of need rather than because they were ready to be productive. Mostly, these guys were high draft picks or acquired in trades. If one looks at the minor league teams, there is little hitting prowess for average or power, especially power. Fielding is also scarce- just look at the number of errors around the minor league infields. Pitching is apparent, although considering the unimpressive WHIPS and low SO/9 innings among starters, it is unclear how the starters will do at the major league level. The relievers are anybody's guess at this point, but I'd say that if one considers the bullpen problems of the Orioles this year, the minor league relievers with potential are far down in the system. So, when Baseball America ranks the Orioles in the bottom 1/3rd will it be because the Orioles minor league system has been depleted by call ups or that it was top heavy with little depth? Tampa Bay called up a lot of players depleting their system and yet never fell out of the top 2/3rds. When the Orioles can do that, then 36 scouts are enough. Until then 36 scouts are about 25 too few.
Steve-
Ii reread that whole interview, and a couple things stick out. Macphail says at one point "you don't know whats part-time, or ceremonial".
Well, yes we do. You put the specific titles on that list. BA did the same.
We have 1/2. Plain and simple.
2 things.
1, the O's, are the largest market of the bottom 15 teams.
They should have the HIGHEST amount of money spent on the draft. When you look at what the top spends, in the 12-15 range, and we spend 9. Thats 6 million. Atkins made 4.5.
There is no excuse for that.
It would be one thing if we haven't lost for 13 seasons.
THe same with those scouts. We should have the most scouts, the best scouts, they should pay whoever what they want.
Whats the financial commitment? 5 Million? 10?
Again, what is the point to paying these mid level veterans to come in, if you are not going to have them protecting the best possible drafted and groomed players?
I just don't get it.
AK,
I suspect most {if not all} of the players in the Northwest League were scouted prior to the year they were drafted. It's not like they're complete unknowns.
==========
I think there may be some apples and oranges going on. If you just look at the bottom line number of scouts for each team, there is a glaring difference. MacPhail's comment about part timers seems to jive with some of the categories on the other teams, such as "consultant". Perhaps a more accurate yard stick would be the hours each staff puts into the job, field work, phone work & office work.
As far as international scouting is concerned, look at the whole picture, including player development. The O's do have two Latin American teams competing, most of MLB teams only have one {a quick count came up with 10 teams with two, 20 teams with one}.
What are the percentages of international players in the Rookie leagues for each team? That would be the real measure of success. I say Rookie leagues because MacPhail hasn't been here long enough for the players signed during his tenure to get much higher.
Could they do more internationally? Of course. Should they do more? Probably. Are they as delinquent as many seem to think? Maybe not.
Baldy
What a load of nonsense by MacPhail. Geez, boy oh boy did Angelos ever hire himself the right guy for the Orioles.
Sell Pete Sell!!!
I can't wait for the Orioles Hangout piece to absolutely slam Angelos, MacPhail ,etc. Maybe that will finally be enough to get Angelos to sell and go away forever.
Steve,
Thanks for posting this article. I appreciate you getting some feedback on this issue. I think it's important to remember that before MacPhail came on board the minor league instructional facility was such a joke that other teams removed their players from the field. That is really unimaginable to me, frankly, and MacPhail deserves credit for fixing that problem, getting into an agreement in the Dominican, and increasing the budget.
With those kind words said, I think a lot of what MacPhail said is unbelievably frustrating. I agree that there can be too many cooks in the kitchen, but how does he even evaluate scouts? Given our division, we need to be more efficient than the Yankees and the Red Sox, not on par with them, and certainly not lagging behind them. I have no idea how effective the 72 scouts in Toronto are (and I'm assuming he focused on them because of Ricciardi and the issues with scouts when he was hired), but when organizations like Pittsburgh are going to India, Korea and all over Latin America, it's a fair question to wonder why we have so few guys to scout such a vast area. And why is he suggesting looking at two years in Toronto? We're talking 16 year old kids here!
Maybe there is strength in numbers, maybe the key is the budget, but it seems like hiring good scouts is a cheap way at leveling the playing field.
I would love to know what BA feels about the issue!
But anyway, thanks for doing this Steve. It's for me to throw stones, and it's fun too!
Markakis is definitely on level with all those guys, your crazy, the system prouced Brain Roberts, Eric Bedard, and Matusz is going to be huge so go ahead on suck on those other al east players you sweat so much
Last night I went to a rookie league team. The Bluefield Orioles are last in the division with a pitiful last place 6-14 record. Every season they end up with a losing record. Yes Macphail made a great trade when he traded Bedard. Overall he has made good trades and there is more hope than before he became GM - but come on this is a joke. The minor league system still has problems and one of those problems is scouting. Now we find out that every other team in baseball has about twice the scouts. No wonder why the O's suck so bad and why the minor league system has problems. I bet there are similar problems with player development. Why do you see the MLB team make so many bone headed plays? Why does every other player team appear to just have better advance scouting and the O's seem to have none and can't handle sucky rookie picthers when they face them?
This article does not inspire confidence it really blows when you had hopes and see they were for nothing. So much for going the Tampa model.
It's also interesting that Toronoto beefed up their scouting so quickly. So you can make rapid changes and improvements. And the O's are just sitting there while others advance in scouting.
MacPhail said all the wrong things with this one. Maybe he should have said you can't just hire 30 people off the streets to be scouts just to inflate your numbers. There has to be an interview process, a clear list of duties for each new scout including logistics as well as a team concept of what to look for (pure talent, baseball instincts, overall athleticism, work ethic, competitiveness). This certainly can't get done overnight.
That being said, hire/steal the best scout from EACH of the other 29 teams. Pay them each 150k to defect over to the Orioles. It's still less than Atkins made this year and I guarantee a lot more bang for our buck. Plus we get insight into the scouting methods of every other major league franchise!
The problem is that Andy really does move at a snail's pace. He makes great decisions, but only makes three decisions each season. I'd rather 10-20 decent decisions, but hey, that's just me.
Law of Diminishing returns? Ridiculous. Maybe that's not true, but not at 36.
Also makes sense at possibly why the O's always get blanked by rookie pitchers. Probably not enough full time scouts to get an accurate reading on these guys.
I must say, MacPhail's answers are disappointing. Honestly, I don't doubt that diminishing returns come into play at some point. I'm just not convinced we've reached that point yet. Boston and NY have 60 and 63 scouts, respectively. These are teams that have been consistent winners for a while now. If they saw the same kind of diminishing returns that MacPhail did, does anyone think they would have 60 and 63 scouts? You could say that's something of an overreaction to Tampa Bay's success, since they only have 50 scouts. Still, even if we dismiss Toronto's 72 as an outlier, we're well below 50, and significantly below 60 and 63. The teams with 50, 60, and 63 scouts have been better than the Orioles for the entirety of MacPhail's tenure. While that's not the only reason, it is one of the reasons.
Yeah, but think of the money Angelos saves.
A lack of depth in scouting is not likely to affect our top 10 or 15 picks in any year. It is likely to have more effect on the lower picks which does not make it inconsequential but does make some of the comments above only discussing top picks silly. We did not need any any more scouts to tell us that the top three this year were set and we would take the one that drops to us.
As for the international market, it is basically a free for all. Scouts can only identify the best players. You still need to sign them. Who knows if our scouts are adequate there. Certainly not anyone on this blog who just see that we are a losing team and that is their proof that everything we do is wrong.
None of this proves we do or do not need more scouts. It just means none of us can possibly know the answer, never mind the hatchet job masters at the gossip rag hangout.
I still think we need more scouts. We're not spending big on free agents so we should have more scouts than any other team in the AL East (even if some of their scouts are part-time or ceremonial). We cannot hope to win if Boston, TB, Toronto, and NY are outspending us on the free agent market and spending more money on scouting. Just will not happen...ever.
Gee Ralph, I'm a member over at OH and even I don't believe that an expose released over there is going to somehow bring down the warehouse.
The proof "will be"? Uh, shouldn't the verb tense be "has been"? This is why you are called a hommer.
At first glance, the numbers appear alarming. However, in past handful of years under Jordan's regime, the percentage of drafted players making an impact within the organization seems to have improved. Does that mean the number of O's scouts have already gone up since Jordan took over, or has the process of scouting and the quality of scouts improved?
We all know quantity doesn't always parlay into successful results. Could be that's what MacPhail was trying to say.
However, reading between the lines, it sounds like he's concerned about the simple mismatch of scouting numbers between the organizations. Perhaps they don't need to rush out and bring in a busload of scouts. As a responsibility to doing the best job you can, you have to at the very least evaluate the results of our 36, say verses the 72 from Toronto. Then maybe you end up adding ten scouts instead of 36.
This has been fascinating and where we should be focusing. Thank you for asking the right questions of the right people and letting us see the answers, which go a long way toward helping us understand what has caused the frustration we're feeling.
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You got it, Steve.
WOW... JUST WOW.... agreed 20x over that in this market no teams are going to have needless employees, none the less scouts! Look at the farm systems of the AL East, the O's are still only in the middle of the pack and slightly above that for MLB. As for teams like the NYY and Sox, they havent put a lot of there home grown talent in there own uniforms lately. But Jeter, Posada, Cano, Williams, etc... O's dont have one that could hold a candle to any of them!!!! Sox have the Youks, Pedroia, Paplebon, Bard, etc... still cant hold a candle to that!!!!! Rays to many to name!!!!! To boot look at all the talent these teams traded away at the dead lines for titles... Hanley Ramirez comes to mind! I cant remember the last time we had ANY trade chips that someone really wanted especially positional prospects. Can it really get worse?????